Skip to main content

tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  November 29, 2020 7:00am-8:00am PST

7:00 am
this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to you in the u.p.s. and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. on today's show -- >> we won by historic numbers. we won pennsylvania by a lot. >> a president dishonestly denying he lost the election. >> i won, by the way. you will find that out. >> in doing so, cracking the foundations of so many of democracy's most important norms and institutions. is there any unprecedent for these un-presidential acts? i have great panel of historians
7:01 am
to discuss that and the legacy of trump's term in office. and an eye-opening discovery that may save your life one day. a way to edit the genetic code itself. newly minted nobel laureate tells me about the promise of crisper. but first, here's my take. more than 150 million americans made their own personal decisions when they voted in this year's election, but it is now the unenviable job of commentators to explain the meaning of those choices. at the broadest level it's fair to say that the vote was a repudiation of donald trump. presidents rarely lose their bids for re-election. only five in the last 125 years and trump has won as few electoral votes as hillary clinton did last time an lost the popular vote by a larger
7:02 am
margin than when jimmy carter defeated gerald ford in the wake of watergate. and yet it's obvious that the country remains deeply divided. after an impeachment, a pandemic, and the worst economic paralysis since the great depression, republicans overwhelmingly voted for their party and democrats did the same. polarization is now deep, tribal existential, largely unaffected by events for job performance. when things get bad in sports, it seems to have become a greater test of loyalty to stay with your team. democrats are more disappointed because they had hoped that this election would be one that resoundingly repudiated trump and realigned politics. those expectations were fed by their success in 2018 as well as pre-election polls which seemed to have been just about as inaccurate as though in 2016. the largest disappointment surely should be that in a year
7:03 am
in which democrats fully embraced ideas about multiculturism and movements lie like black lives matter, donald trump appears to have won the second largest share of the minority vote of any republican since 1976 according to exit polls. he won the largest percentage of the black votes since 1996, but he still only got 12%. he won 35% of the muslim vote. what happened? there are probably many answers. partly james carvell is still right. it is the economy, stupid. many of these groups prospered during most of trump's presidency and they seem unwilling to blame him for the handling of the pandemic and the ensuing economic collapse. to the extent that democrats were associated with lockdowns and republicans with reopening the economy, covid-19 may have actually helped president trump with some as well. but my own interpretation of these results is informed by feelings i have always had about the democratic party's ideology
7:04 am
of multiculturism. it lumps a wide variety of ethnic, racial and religious groups into one minority monolith and approaches them from a perspective that does not fit us all. the dominant democratic approach is that minorities face deep systemic discrimination in america and need to be protected with active measures by the government across a series of fronts. this idea is rooted in the experience of blacks for whom it is entirely applicable. america's treatment of blacks has been cruel with policies that have broken their families and treated them either as subhumans or second-class citizens. historical structural barriers have left a lasting imprint and discrimination still persists to this day. other immigrants to america almost all of whom came voluntary, not bound in chains, have had a very different experience. while we have also encountered discrimination and exclusion, we have found a country that on the
7:05 am
whole has been far more open and receptive to foreigners than most other places. that means that an ideology born of the treatment of african americans will ring false to american immigrants and their descendants. for us, harsh treatment by white americans is not the single searing experience that shapes our politics. some of us are socially liberal, others conservative, some view themselves as self-reliant entrepreneurs, and some seek to assimilate by distancing themselves from newer immigrants or blacks. some of the most racist americans i know are themselves minorities. even blacks vary much more widely on policy than might be imagined. a recent gallup poll, for instance, found that only 19% of blacks want less police presence in their neighborhoods while 61% want the same amount and 20% actually want more. so slogans like defund the place pushed by the most woke
7:06 am
activists on twitter might unwittingly turn off mainstream african americans. let me give you a personal example to explain one minority mindset. ever since i applied for a scholarship to colleges in the united states 39 years ago, i have almost always left blank the line on the form that asks for my ethnic or racial classification except when it's legally required as in the census. i just don't feel right piggybacking on tragedies that have affected blacks, native americans and others who have truly faced discrimination. most of you will, to quote a great american, i have always wanted to be judged by the content of my character, not the color of my skin. the democratic party should remember that for many minorities our greatest aspiration is simply to be regular americans, treated no worse, but no better either. go to for a link to my "washington post" column, and let's get started.
7:07 am
tuesday will mark four weeks since the u.s. election and former vice president biden has passed 18 million in the popular vote and 306 votes in the electoral college which meets on december 14th. just about every world leader with a few notable exceptions has congratulated biden on his victory. just about every legal challenge from the trump team has crumbled and no credible evidence of widespread fraud has been offered, yet the man sitting in the oval office has yet to concede and few senior republicans have acknowledged the election's results. how will history look on this. i am joined by lthree eminet historians. doris, absolutely fantastic book about franklin roosevelt.
7:08 am
jon meacham one the pulitzer prize. he advises joe biden occasionally on ferguson has wr the rothchild family to world war i to henry kissinger. he is senior fellow at the hoover institution. neil, let me start with you and ask you, what do you think is the message in biden being elected, trump being denied a second term, but the senate apparently staying republican, the democrats not doing so well in the house. make sense of that. >> well, i am going to disagree with your monologue, fareed, which is very presumptuous of me. what you said, you began by saying the country was deeply divided and then you went on to show that actually when you look at voting, it cut across racial divisions quite clearly. and i would argue this election
7:09 am
has been the victory of the center running against a great deal of media commentary, some of yours, that foresaw a constitutional crisis, if not an outright civil war. this election wasn't the 1860 election that led to civil war after lincoln's victory. it wasn't 1876 when a bunch of states sent rival electors to washington and the whole thing ended up being stitched up in a rather steamy deal. you had highest turnout since 1900, both sides successfully mobilizing voters. but the country collectively voted for the center ground. joe biden, the personification of the political middle, emerged just victorious, but a very narrow victory. in fact, by the standards of the democratic party, the narrowest and weakest showing since 1884 because every president since grover cleveland on the democratic side has come into office with both houses of
7:10 am
congress in democratic hands and that seems likely not to be the case unless the democrats can pull off a surprise success in the georgia runoffs. if you look at the way people voted, there were clearly republicans who voted for down ballot republican candidates but not for donald trump. he underperformed, the candidates for the senate and house in a bunch of places. so i think the country actually collectively voted for the middle ground and repudiated trump's more extreme positions. obviously, they had had enough of him and repudiated the radical agenda of the socialist left of the democratic party. i am left in a cheerful mood in the wake of this result relative to those people who predicted the downfall of the republican >> john meecn meacham, what i'm by is the courts have held up very well. i think they have shot down 38
7:11 am
of trump's lawsuits. had it not been for a series of small number of state republicans who went against what the president was urging them to do, who went against what their party often was telling them to do, and actually chose to certify results or not entertain or indulge arguments of voter fraud, it could have looked somewhat different, or, you know, is it -- is naill's benign sense that system worked the right way to look at it? >> i think both are true. if i could offer an angle very briefly. i think he is right. i think the premise of your question is right. the rule of law has held just barely. but that's what human governments do, right? the framers understood that most of what we would want to do would be bad. i am an adherent to the notion that the constitution is
7:12 am
fundamentally a calvinist document. it assumes that we are sinful and fallen and frail and fallible. so we are checking and balancing our appetites and ambitions. and so in extremists, which is where many of us, including me, believe we have been in the last three years or so, four years or so, there were people who stood up and followed the rule of law, which is essential. in the line of attributed to churchill, you could always count on the americans to do the right thing once we exhausted every other possibility. we came awfully loclose there. i believe this was an election, in my mind, has restored a conversation that dominated american politics between 1933 and 2017. it was a figurative one between a position largely defined by fdr and by lbj on one end, and on the other end by ronald
7:13 am
reagan and george w. bush. and every president through obama governed as part of that conversation. the last four years have not been a sequential chapter. i believe that a biden presidency will be a sequential chapter to that historical conversation. >> doris, does joe biden come in with a mandate? i mean, certainly not a mandate like fdr came in in 1932. but when you look at other ones, what does he come into office with kind of an ideological momentum terms? >> well, i think the crisis provides him with a mandate for a hunger for leadership, number one. i mean, that was the hunger that brought fdr in. in fdr's time it was easier. they said they forgot to be democrats and republicans because they wanted to respond to the crisis. what it reminds me more even more than fdr and the depression
7:14 am
because he had a larger mandate is when teddy rose havroosevelt comes in. the industrial order was making up the economy much as globalization and the tech order have today. we have this huge gap between the rich and the poor. you had people in the city who were suspicious of people in the country. you had sectionalism. teddy warned people in different sections and classes were viewing each other as the other rather than as common american citizens that kind of tribal politics we are seeing today. but leadership was able to come in at his level and argue for a square peel deal. this goes back to what naill was saying, a square deal for the rich and poor so as long as rich act fairly. he was going to deal with the worst aspects of the industrial order and he was able to use public sentiment by mobilizing the press to pressure the congressmen. and then you bring lbj in and he realized you couldn't deal with just the leaders of the party.
7:15 am
he brought them into the white house so they had an individual relationship with him. joe biden could do that. they had dinner, they'd go through the mansion, they'd talk and have drinks and then he would call them the next day and never stopped calling them, even called them at 2:00 a.m. somehow the responsibility of the new president, he may not have that mandate out there, he has to build one, build one through the individual congressman, below the mcconnells, he has to make public sentiment force actions on crisis that we need. with lincoln with public sentiment, anything is possible. without is, nothing is possible. so there is movement and they have got to move forward and get that kind of movement from the outside in in order to be able to make a mandate even if it's not given to them right now. >> stay with us. we have more with this terrific panel. next up, what happens to donald trump and what happens to the republican party? ♪ ♪
7:16 am
♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪ ♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪ ♪ as long as i got you then baby ♪ ♪ you know that you've got me, oh! yea...♪ ♪ and now your co-pilot. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying. still a night out. but everything fits in. still hard work. just a little easier. still a legend.
7:17 am
just more legendary. chevrolet. making life's journey, just better.
7:18 am
before we talk about tax-s-audrey's expecting... new? -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. risotto. buffalo. gelato. cheesecake. grilled steak. clam bake. milkshake.
7:19 am
brussels sprout. sauerkraut. fresh-caught trout. alfalfa sprout. curry. fried turkey. mcflurry. cacciatori. chimichurri. (inhale) spiral ham. blackberry jam. rack of lamb. candied yams. pokes. smokeys. gnocchis. and them banging raviolis. we are america's kitchen. doordash. every flavor welcome.
7:20 am
we are back with an absolute all-star panel of historians, doris kearns goodwin latest book leadership in turbulent time. jon meacham is truth is marching on. june lewis at t john lewis and the power of hope. and niall ferguson. niall, let me ask you about the republican party. this is why i would persist in saying that the country is polarized. you have now by the latest polls 77% of the republican party that believes that this election was fraudulent and joe biden stole it. you have a situation where donald trump is without any question the dominant figure in the republican party, even after having lost an election, which seems to me very unusual.
7:21 am
so in that context, why is it, in your view, if not for this, you know, rather extreme existential polarization, why are republicans not, you know, acknowledging the results of the election from mitch mcconnell down to, as i say, rank and file republicans who overwhelmingly think this was a stolen election? >> well, let's remember, fareed, many democrats felt that way not only about the 2016 election, but about the 2000 election. so it's not like it's the first time that the losers have said the election was stolen. democrats spent four years trying to find evidence that vladimir putin was responsible for donald trump's election and failed to find it. so i think we shouldn't exaggerate what we are seeing here. i think it's important to recognize that trump was an extraordinarily charismatic
7:22 am
political leader who was able to hijack the republican party in 2016. but he also was able to do it because he articulated policies that were popular, the anti-immigration policy, anti-free trade policy, anti-liberal elites. he was able to channel a great deal of frustration in middle america. it's not like that trust rakfru gone away. the democrats made the mistake of becoming the lockdown party which allowed trump to campaign as the economy great again candidate. in the end, he lost. i don't think trumpism is going to go away. i think the next generation of republican leaders are going to have to meet the expectations of that extraordinarily mobilized base that trump has created. but i think, you know, in the end, and i'll go back to something that doris kearns goodwin said, i think we can understand this in the context of american history without having to look at central europe
7:23 am
in the 1920s and 1930s. trump is a populist. in many ways, he echoes the populism of the late 19th century. if trump refuses to go away politically, which i suspect he will, it will be a bit like william jennings brian who was the populist who refused to go away as far as the democratic party was concerned and was an unsuccessful stit for the presidency three times. trump will doubtless seek to say the election was stolen, he should have another crack in 2024, but my guess is that the republican party's leadership, not only at the national level, but at the state level, is quietly planning to make sure that that doesn't happen. publicly, they cannot denounce him, disown him, because if they do that, he is going to turn on them just as he has already turned on fox news. that will be very damaging for the republican party. a divided party never does well. so i think what we are seeing at the moment the republican party establishment humoring donald trump all the way out of the
7:24 am
white house. and i think they will then make sure that whatever happens, he is not the nominee in 2024. >> doris kearns goodwin, has any individual ever dominated their party to the extent that trump seems to now? one thinks of t.r. who went out on his own. roosevelt, who his fourth nomination didn't even attend the convention. >> well, what's different today, obviously, is the media and the access to the media and the oxygen that it gives him with the continual tweets by trump. you know, when he is out of power and that oxygen isn't there day by day, i think there will be a diminution of the power he holds over the other people in the party. the real question to me is you are going to have a lot of individual republican legislators in this next section of congress. are they going to feel the responsibility to do something about this crisis to put people back to work, to produce a safety net under the people that are being hurt, to deal with the
7:25 am
way the vaccine is being distributed? that's what you come in congress for, to do something to make a difference on behalf of your fellow americans. if they feel some sort of hunger to do that, you know, then maybe the desire to just make failure the answer so that two years from now they can win the midterm election will not win. i think that's what we have to hope on somehow. when fdr, when my guy lbj was trying to persuade civil rights because the democratic party was split in two, he said if you come with me on this bill and bring republicans with you to break our filibuster because our party split in two, 200 years from now school children will only know abraham lincoln and everett dirk son. some of these people coming into congress who want to be other than the say no party that they have been so far and government is necessary right now perhaps more than in recent years. >> jon, i want to ask about what
7:26 am
niall said. one, he thought trump would fade away. a lot of the ideas he represents were very powerful. i actually am more inclined toward that view that trump's brand of conservative socially conservative nationalist populism has remade the republican party. i wonder whether the conversation you were talking about, about sort of essentially less government or more government, is the big conversation. the republican party seems to be the party of josh hawley and marco rubio, less interested in balancing the budget and cutting government spending, and more about anti-immigrant, anti-china, anti-trade. is that the future of the party? >> unfortunately, it may be the future of american politics where culture and identity are at the center as opposed to more rational policy choices about which reasonable people can disagree given their understanding and interpretation of data and circumstance. i think president trump is the fullest manifestation of
7:27 am
perennial not just american forces, but human forces. nativism, isolationism, the -- all theisms that george w. bush talked about in his last state of the union. le populism that niall was talking about isn't going away. it never has gone away. it's been with us from the beginning. we had our first make america great election in 1800 when thomas jefferson wanted to return to the principles of 1776. so that was 24 years in. and i think, as arthur sleighsinger, our mutual friend, used to say, the future out wits owl of our certitude. ops i don't think there is any way to know what's going to happen to president trump. he could be joe mccarthy fading away, but he also has done something that no other american politician ever did, which is come in from the outside, take
7:28 am
over a party, rise to the pinnacle of power, and govern for four years. and 74 million people or so looked at the last four years or looked ahead four years in fear of the a caricature of the democratic party and said, yeah, we want more of that. so we are a 51% country. donald trump understands that intuitively. and i think that we are in a political cultural moment, as doris was saying, where the independent contractor, the independent actor, the disintermediateiated figure, was david ban drily argued so brilliantly four years ago, donald trump is the district intermediation, a cultural, political, economic reality. i think what you see with the respect party right now with the republican leadership is they
7:29 am
are basically all participating in a kind of political hedge fund because they don't know either. they are hedging against trump's ongoing influence or that of his children or his allies, you know. trump has always been a franchiser, and so there may be trump candidates as well as trump towers around the country going forward. >> all right. stay with us. when we come back, i will ask these great historians with the democrats, what can joe biden learn from the past about healing a divided nation. with allstate, you can really save.
7:30 am
save for being a new customer. save more for adding drivewise. save even more for driving safely. see how much you can save with allstate. ♪ inflammation in your eye might be to, see how much you can save with allstate. looks like a great day for achy, burning eyes over-the-counter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. ha! these drops probably won't touch me. xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. what is that? xiidra, noooo! it can provide lasting relief.
7:31 am
xiidra is the only fda approved treatment specifically for the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. one drop in each eye, twice a day. don't use if you're allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. after using xiidra, wait 15 minutes before reinserting contacts. got any room in your eye? talk to an eye doctor about twice-daily xiidra. i prefer you didn't! xiidra. not today, dry eye. on all the food that makes you boogie. - [narrator] grubhub perks give you deals (upbeat music) get the food you love with perks from- - [crowd] grubhub. find a stock basedtech. on your interests - grub what you love. or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions.
7:32 am
7:33 am
we are back here on "gps"
7:34 am
with our annual post-thanksgiving panel of historians. i am joined by doris kearns goodwin, jon meacham and niall ferguson. i want to do a factual point. niall mentioned that democrats also after 2016 thought the elections were rigged. i just checked it. about 30% of democrats thought the election was rigged or fraudulent. it is now, as i said, about 75 to 80% of republicans who believe that. so i think that is a difference. on to the democrats more generally. doris kearns goodwin, this challenge that joe biden has of keeping the left in the center in line is a very old historical balancing act that the democratic presidents have had to do, is it not? >> well, not only democratic presidents in a certain sense what lincoln did about i bringing in a team of rivals was bringing in factions from different parts of the republican party in the north. so they would be around him every day.
7:35 am
he absorbed their understandings and reaped out to constituents. i think as president-elect biden figures out how to fill out thinks cabinet it will be important to have progressives within his inner circle, inner ear so they feel that they are being listened to. and he really truly can listen to them and try to figure out how to balance what they need, what the moderate needs and what can get through the congress. it may also be as lbj said, better to have your enemies innin instead of out. there is so much on the part of the moderates and progressives on what should be done and he has to walk down that progressive middle. that's where progress will be made. >> jon meacham, you have helped joe biden craft some of his words. is eloquence enough? we had a very eloquent democratic president not so long ago, barack obama, and mitch mcconnell was pretty
7:36 am
obstructionist. haven't we seen this movie before? >> the thing about history, of course, is we have always seen these movies before. we do all we can to make the ending happier, right? there was never a once upon a time in american history. there is never going to be a happily ever after. rhetoric is about action. that's the greek meaning of the word. words matter, but words only go so far. you are exactly right. this is an enormously complicated challenge facing the incoming administration. i'd argue it's as complicated as, and doris can check me on this, as '32, '33. the good news, to some extent, is there is a tangible problem which can be addressed. the pandemic. and perhaps a competent data-driven, reasonable response that manages to put the country
7:37 am
back in a slightly more normal place will give him some capital to spend on other issues. >> niall, we don't have a lot of time, but i want to close with -- i want to ask you about your sort of optimism, which is do you think the world will look at this election and america right now and say, fundamentally, this was an impressive demonstration that the american system worked, the rule of law prevailed, or will it say, boy, the united states is in a very strange place politically, chaotic, you know, coming apart at the seams? what do you think? >> it depends where you are. by the way, thanks for the fact check, fareed. i never said the same proportion of democrats questioned the legitimacy of the 2016 election. hillary clinton said it had been stolen. that was a significant interventions. europeans will say, hooray, the united states is going back to normal and we can go back to
7:38 am
transatlantic normality. in the middle east, particularly in the arab world, they will worry that the obama policies with respect to iran will be resuscitated. the key thing here, and it's important in light of what my colleagues have been saying, is that biden is not coming into office as lyndon johnson did or franklin roosevelt did with a massive dominant majority in congress. remember, the democrats of 68 senate seats after the 1964 election. the most that biden could hope for is to scrape a tiny margin out of two runoffs in georgia and have kamala harris cast the deciding vote. i think what people will have to get used to in the rest of the world is joe biden is not going to be a very powerful president. indeed, the danger for him, i think, he ends up being as weak as jimmy carter was. why? because carter simultaneously had to fight a cold war, and i believe we are in a cold war with china, even if there is a chance of detante, and to
7:39 am
satisfy the left of his own party. i think the world will have to get used to different presidency from donald trump, but also different from lbj's or fdr's whose names have been invoked today. >> we will leave it at that. fascinating conversation with all three of you. i really appreciate it. thank you, niall ferguson, jon meacham, doris kearns goodwin. we will be back. some hot cocoa? mom, look! are you okay? head home this holiday with the one you love. visit your local mercedes-benz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedes-benz winter event.
7:40 am
7:41 am
finding the right words can be when it comestough.tism, finding understanding doesn't have to be. together, we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum.
7:42 am
go to ...this one's for you. you inspired us to make your humira experience even better... with humira citrate-free. it has the same effectiveness you know and trust, but we removed the citrate buffers, there's less liquid, and a thinner needle... with less pain immediately following injection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. and you can use your co-pay card to pay as little as $5 a month. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections,... ...including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,... have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,... ...serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common... and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections,... or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. the same humira you trust with less pain
7:43 am
immediately following injection. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. sciences has today decided to award the 2020 nobel prize in chemistry jointly to emanuel and jennifer doudna for the development for a method of genome he had at this timing. >> the first time an all-female team won a nobel science prize. you may have heard of their groundbreaking discovery that brought them the prize, it is called crispr, and the easiest
7:44 am
way to describe it is genetic scissors. crispr gives scientists a way to cut out parts of the dna code and that code can be altered. scientists believe that crispr may one day fix almost all genetic defects. it's been tested as a potential cure for cancers and might bring back the woolly mammoth. nobel laureate, jennider doudna, welcome back to the show. >> thank you. >> so, first, the question you are going to have to get very, very practiced at answering, how would you explain to a lay audience what crispr is and why it's so significant? >> well, i think your introduction was quite good. crispr is a technology for changing the code of life, changing dna and cells in a precise fashion that gives scientists a tool to manipulate genes in ways never before possible. >> so help us with a few examples.
7:45 am
there is something like sickle cell anemia. there seems to be, you know, a single dna responsible for it. explain what crispr could do. >> well, sickle cell disease is a great disease where crispr technology could be incredibly beneficial because it's a disease that involves a single gene that contains a defective letter in the code. and crispr can be used to correct that code mistake or even change another gene that allows the patient to recover from their disease. and amazingly, this has already been done in a patient, victoria gray, whose sickle cell disease has been effectively cured using crispr. >> when we talk about genetics and things linked to genes, there are other things linked to genes. you know, being blue-eyed, being tall. can you imagine crispr being
7:46 am
used to essentially create a kind of baby or, you know, human that one wants? >> well, this has been a big topic in the whole world of genome editing and with crispr in particular because of that potential. and so over the last five years there has been an active international partnership to ensure responsible use of gene-editing, including in human embryos. right now that's effectively certainly in the united states is not allowed, and in other countries there is a strong regulatory framework that guides the way that it can be developed in the future. >> but technologically, it is possible? given the -- >> it is. >> tell me your reaction to what happened in china. a scientist there essentially used crispr to create twins who were essentially immune from hiv, as i understand it, and then the chinese scientific
7:47 am
establishment came down very hard on him. in fact, he is now serving a three-year jail sentence. do you think that this is deterrent enough? a lot of people worry this technology, once it's out there, someone is going to do it. >> the announcement was quite shocking to the international community and certainly to me, and i think has really galvanized the effort to ensure that that type of irresponsible use of crispr does not happen again. and we have to proceed with caution. >> if one thinks about the ramifications of your discoveries, i mean, you really, human beings for the first time are being given the capacity to alter their very nature, you know, their genetic code. there is something that seems for im mutable than that. now it seems we can change it. it feels like we are on a new path and you could imagine a world where we are, you know, we are able to create biological
7:48 am
supermen or superwomen. is that too dramatic? >> that's a bit dramatic. i don't think that's happening anytime soon. but you're right in the sense that it is quite an extraordinary thing to think that we, as human beings, have in our hands a technology to change the very code that makes us who we are. and for that matter, the code of other organisms that we share the planet with. so i think it truly is a profound moment for biologists, and an exciting opportunity that comes, of course, with great responsibility. >> jennifer doudna, always a pressure to have you on. thank you. >> thank you, fareed. great to be here. >> and we will be back. ♪ ♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪
7:49 am
♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪ ♪ as long as i got you then baby ♪ ♪ you know that you've got me, oh! yea...♪ ♪ on all the food that makes you boogie. ♪ you- [narrator] grubhubt me, perks give you deals (upbeat music) get the food you love with perks from- - [crowd] grubhub. whoa! someone please help! of course. you're tenacious, i'll give you that! it's ok, i'm ok... [heavy breathing] where are you? coming! let's do this! yeaahh! it's on!! woooo! whoa... [heavy breathing] rated rp to t.
7:50 am
-well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans? at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. and now your co-pilot. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying. still a night out. but everything fits in. still hard work. just a little easier. still a legend. just more legendary. chevrolet. making life's journey, just better.
7:51 am
save for being a new customer, for adding drivewise, and for driving safely. whatever you drive, start driving down the cost of insurance. ♪
7:52 am
and now for the last look.
7:53 am
those of us working remotely during the pandemic can probably all attest to the fact that it's possible to do more online than we ever imagined. the realm of the digital has extended well beyond video conferencing and e-commerce. covid-19 has forced to see doctors online, go to school remotely, all kinds of businesses have adapted to this reality. hollywood premieres big budget films on streaming platforms, gyms are putting out videos. as i write in my book "ten lessons for a post-pandemic world," the pandemic shows us that the technological revoluti revolution already started by the rise of smartphones and software is further along than we thought. the pandemic served as a kind of forced mass product testing for digital life and for the most part our technological tools passed muster. when necessity dictated that we
7:54 am
must live digitally, we found out that we could. it's unlikely that we will ever go back to the way things were. that has led to fears of a post-pandemic future in which people empty out of cities, work is increasingly remote, and human interaction becomes all too infrequent. but this, too, is unlikely. technology has many benefits, but we also lose a lot of the texture of human life when we conduct business via zoom. it's useful in a crisis and it allows us to work well with people we already know in situations that are familiar, but new people, new ideas, accidental discoveries are all much more difficult. on zoom we spend social capital rather than building it up. gone are the spontaneous interactions of the water cooler between colleagues that generate goodwill and morale and good ideas. gone are the accidental meetings between students, professors and peers that are at the heart of
7:55 am
learning. we will end up with some hybrid model that uses the convenience of technology, but also values the power of actual human contact. we all creaave that contact. while the pandemic might have deepened our understanding of this fact, it's actually an ancient truth. aristotle wrote in politics that man is by nature a social animal. at the heart of his understanding of this term is the idea that human beings are unique creatures and not fully formed at birth. they are shaped by their environment and their environment is shaped crucially by other humans. the pandemic even as it has accelerated the digital revolution, it has also highlighted its shortcomings. we need human contact. in other words, air stottcal was right. for more of the lessons i write about go to and order my book "ten lessons for a post-pandemic world." thanks to all of you for being a
7:56 am
part of my program this week. i will see you next week. skip to cold relief fast with alka seltzer plus severe powerfast fizz. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. ♪ oh, what a relief it is! so fast! find a stock basedtech. on your interests or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity. of salads or soups or chicken fried steak, or...send good tidings with a slice of cake. gift food for any occasion. new on doordash. or...send good tidings with a slice of cake. with this seal, this restaurant is committing to higher levels of cleanliness. ♪ ♪
7:57 am
♪ ♪ the expertise that helps keep hospitals clean, is helping keep businesses clean too. look for the ecolab science certified seal. you buy from us, at cayou get the freedomat car of the seven-day return policy. this isn't some dealership test drive around the block. it's better. this is seven days to put your carvana car to the test and see if it fits your life. load it up with a week's worth of groceries. take the kiddos out for ice cream.
7:58 am
check that is has enough wiggle room in your garage. you get the time to make sure you love it. and on the sixth day, we'll reach out and make sure everything's amazing. if so, excellent. if not, swap it out for another, or return it for a refund. it's that simple. because at carvana, your car happiness is what makes us happy. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪
7:59 am
8:00 am
i'm brian stelter in new york and this hour of "reliable sources" begins with breaking news. president trump breaking his silence. the president wrapping up his first tv interview since losing the election. he had a phone call with maria bartiromo on fox news for the better part of an hour. president trump breaking his silence and refusing to accept that he lost the election 26 days ago. yes, 26 days ago. he is, sorry to report to you, he is